StreetsBlogs: Could you walk us through what you had to go through with your freeway teardown in Milwaukee -- who did you have to win over to achieve that?
John Norquist:Â Well, the first thing was, it's so counterintuitive to do these things that the first reaction was from very reasonable people -- ordinary citizens, the traffic engineers, neighborhood people, even very progressive people -- "You want to do what? You want to tear that --what?" You know, it doesn't compute, it sounds like a wacky thing to do. You have to have patience and spend a lot of time in meetings letting people beat the living hell out of you. And then you get to a certain point where people say, "Hey, wait, I think I understand what you mean. You're saying the freeway's a blighting influence." And you just go through all the arguments against it, but the biggest argument for it is it just makes the place function a lot better and add more value and be a place where people actually want to be.
Most people don't like standing next to freeways, it's not a big tourist attraction to stand next to a freeway. People kind of get the aesthetics first and then eventually they get the economics. The downtown property owners in Milwaukee really ended up being the most enthusiastic supporters, with a few exceptions. And then you have to overcome the bureaucratic obstacles. First obstacle is the state DOT people have a hissy fit and tell you you're going to have to pay the money back on the structure you're tearing down, which isn't true. On any of the projects that have come down -- Portland, New York, San Francisco, Milwaukee -- not in even one case has there been reimbursement for the road. Because the roads are at the end of their design life, they have no positive value anyway. And then the other thing they'll say is, "It'll cost money." They make the teardown costs all visible, 100 percent, you know, "an overwhelming burden on the backs of the hardworking taxpayer." And then the costs of rebuilding the freeway, which in Milwaukee's case were four times higher than tearing it down and putting in a boulevard, they try to make that all hidden, like that's all paid for, you don't even talk about that.
So you go through all these value calculation fights, and then finally you need to play your political cards. In Milwaukee the anti-freeway movement began in early 70s, and in the mid and late 70s a whole bunch of legislators were elected who were against freeways, people who organized and went door to door, they won the battles. If we hadn't won those battles Milwaukee would have been devastated, but we've killed about half the freeways they had planned on building. And that saved the city really from being in a very similar situation to what Detroit is in right now.
Mayor Norquist has been to Louisville multiple times to speak on behalf of 8664. Most recently, he was a featured speaker at the 2nd Annual 8664 Forum at the Ali Center in November.
Bravo Mayor Norquist. Not only do people not like to stand next to freeways, I don't think they like to picnic under bridges, but last Friday the CJ applauded the Waterfront Development folks for reclaiming land under the Kennedy Bridge for a picnic area. Kudos for reclaming the space used by painting contractors for years, but putting picnic tables under the bridge is bad planning in my view. Funny how the CJ glamourizes the concept of picnicing under a bridge. I guess they are trying to get us used to the concept of hanging out under elevated bridges and highways once the 23 lane reconfigured Spaghetti Junction gets built.
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2009903270459
Hey y'all. Continuing the great work I see.
I may be mistaken, but I just wanted to be sure.
I think the name of the above referenced blog is StreetsBlog, not StreetBlogs.
Keep up the great work,
Pat
John Norquist is the former mayor of Milwaukee who had to resign. Given those circumstances, I am quite surprised that you would give his thoughts much credence. And from what I hear from within Milwaukee, he is not missed at all.
Regarding freeways, he was never able to convince the majority of the county electorate to his way of thinking. When he was elected in 1974, his aldermanic district voted FOR the completion of the Stadium South Freeway, which he was against. Did he act in accordance with the majority wishes? No. In fact, despite years of political agitation against the remaining freeways in Milwaukee, the five remaining freeways were supported for completion by the majority of the county electorate in November 1974. The former mayor conveniently forgets history when it doesn't suit him.
And the teardown of the Park East Freeway? Much of it remains vacant, an eyesore that is he responsible more. All the more remarkable since other freeway corridors remain vacant 30 years after demapping.
And if you really want to examine the road legacy of the former mayor, investigate how the once fine city road system was allowed to deteriorate into Third World status under Mayor Norquist. That is hardly what I would call "New Urbanism."